Quick answer: They seem to work well above expectations. For example: The .35 Remington has renown and favor among Maine’s black bear hunters; often being referred to as “Maine’s bear rifle” in its various iterations: pump, lever, semi or bolt actions. The cartridge with a 200gr Rem Core Lokt at about 2100 fps in real life just gets the job done without a lot of fuss, noise or recoil.
Of course, Maine bear hunting is typical of most bear hunts in the Northeastern parts of both the USA and Canada – mostly thick, mixed unspoiled forests where shots are close and action fast! That could be in the use of baits, hounds or just still hunting.
Why then a .35 Rem over a .30-30? A good question that demands an educated answer. While there may be other .35s on the low end, yet the .35 Rem has survived and is still quite popular through the use of factory ammo or classic handloads. I’ve a friend and past hunting partner who loves his in a special 16″ Marlin Marauder.
< One 200gr RN Core Lokt handload at about 2100 fps straight down into the bear as it walked under his stand. He’s a big man and so is the bear bigger than it looks. It was DRT – didn’t move 1 cm after the shot.
< The recovered bullet looks like a $3 premium!
All that to say you can discover a lot more on this bear hunter at his website: http://www.35cal.com
As to celebrities who have favored .35-cal cartridges of the more powerful kind, I think of famed author/hunter Lane Simpson who introduced the .358 STA for longer reach. Simpson’s creation was simply an 8mm Rem Mag necked to .358-caliber with less body taper. A 250gr Partition was said to attain about 3000 fps from a 26″ barrel – not by Lane himself but others who had adopted the same basic thing previous to Simpson’s, based on the .375 H&H. This was an AI conversion from the .375 H&H necked down to .358-cal and referred to as the .350 Mashburn Super Magnum that I was aware of before Simpson introduced the .358 STA based on the 8 Rem Mag which, itself, was based on the .375 H&H or .300 H&H.
Regardless: While my 26″ .340 Wby would do 3000 fps from the 250gr NP, it had the Weatherby freebore and double radius shoulder that may have added the extra fps; but also from RL-22 that was not available many years earlier. But the basic question of interest to be put under a microscope is: Does a 250gr .358-cal Partition (or any other “good enough” bullet) have any advantage over a .338-cal 250gr at similar impact velocities on large and potentially dangerous game like brown bear? And how could we ever find that out except from expert witnesses who have done it 1000 times without biases?
Never mind that, as empirical evidence will never be forthcoming in this world or the next! So let’s be satisfied in crunching some numbers:
Because the .340 Wby and .358 STA are using the same basic case – an improved .375 H&H – they’ll hold approximately the same amount of powder. And since the slightly larger caliber will have a slightly better expansion ratio -which interpreted means: slightly better efficiency than a .338-cal, other matters being equal (which they never are 100%). A .358 mag based on the .375 H&H employing 90 grs of the right powder should give. . . maybe. . . likely. . . perhaps 50 fps advantage over a .338 mag using a similar amount of a slightly slower appropriate powder – all else equal (except they rarely are).
The disadvantage of the .358 to the .338 is a lack of the best bullets for extra-long range – and who really cares? I don’t!
However, in my view, and others who use mid-bore cartridges, those that qualify for game up to the size and weight of Alaska/Yukon moose and brown bear, will generally hire an outfitter and in any case would not be thinking of extra-long range shooting of such animals, but closer ranges that under most conditions would not be exceeding about 400 yds maximum.
In such a scenario, much less powerful cartridges in .35-caliber (and .338-cal) could fit the bill. . . or so it would appear if we crunch some numbers and take the experiences of some others seriously.
Some other shorter-cased popular mid-bores that have worked very well in the far North West of North America in Northern B.C., Alaska, Yukon and NWT, are: the .338 Win Mag; .35 Whelen; 9.3 x 62 and .350 Reming Magnum. From select handloads, they all qualify for attaining and, in some cases, surpassing 4000 ft-lbs at the muzzle. Depending on the bullet and load in each, 2000 ft-lbs is easily attained or surpassed at 400 yds.
Again: Depending on bullet MV, construction and profile, any 250gr from any of those cartridges making 1900 fps at 400 yds is producing 2003 ft-lbs.
Some examples:
.35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag – 250gr Partition/.440 BC/.279 SD/ 22″ barrel
MV = 2700 fps/4046 ft-lbs
400 yds = 1980 fps/2176 ft-lbs/ 60 TE average/ -19″/ Recoil = 37 ft-lbs – 8.5 lb rifle ready.
.338 Win Mag – 250gr Partition/.473 BC/.313 SD/24″ barrel
MV = 2780 fps/4289 ft-lbs
400 yds = 2094 fps/2435 ft-lbs/ 67 TE average/ -17″/ Recoil = 41 ft-lbs – 8.5 lb rifle ready.
9.3 x 62 Mauser – 286gr Partition/.482 BC/ .307 SD/22.44″ barrel
MV = 2620 fps/4358 ft-lbs
400 yds/1970 fps/2463 ft-lbs/ 77 TE average/ -19.6″/ Recoil (without brake) = 44.6 ft-lbs – 8 lbs ready.
- Those are actual results from four mid-bore rifles that could effectively be used on large N.A. game like Alaska/Yukon moose and brown bear to 400 yards and slightly beyond. Yet, I’ve serious doubts that actual shots are routinely taken on such animals at 400 yds or metres.
- The historic .375 H&H could slightly improve on the 9.3 x 62’s results, but at the cost of a longer action and heavier rifle. If not in a longer and heavier rifle, then the recoil will substantially increase.
But that begs the issue of which is best, a .338 or .358 of similar ballistics at bullet impact. A .358 Norma Magnum has the same basic cartridge case as a .338 Win Mag. I have used .338 Win Mag brass necked to .308 for my .308 Norma Magnum. And the .358 Norma is simply a .308 Norma expanded to .358, so it’s simple math to use .338 Win Mag brass for the .358 Norma as well as for its own .338 Win Mag rifle.
So case capacity will be about the same. If PSI and barrel lengths are as identical as humanly possible, using the best powders and bullet weights in each, theoretically the .358 caliber should have the better ballistics, at least from the muzzle. However, as pointed out, since the .338-cal in magnums has caught on as a do-it-all caliber for both near and far ranges, as well as small game to large and dangerous game, as the ranges stretch-out to +700 yds, the .338 Win Mag and ilk will take home any roses!
BUT! As stated and implied, most large/dangerous game are NOT shot at close to 700 yds, but rather at less than half that number! In other words, unless the hunter intends to spend any extra cash (or debt) on becoming a dedicated long-range expert in the HUNTING of game in the 1/2 ton or more class, he/she would be better served with a standard length cartridge of 3.34″ – 3.5″. Let’s say: a .35 Whelen vs a .338 Win Mag , or equivalent, on an average Alaska-Yukon bull moose, at an estimated 400 yds average – which, I’m sure is beaucoup plus median yds!
My .35 Whelens (3 of ’em) have all had 22″ barrels. Of the two .338 Win Mags I’ve personally owned, there was a great variance in barrel lengths: a 20″ and a 26″, so the average was 23″. So from a considerable number of handloads in each, I reckon a safe, fair average from a 22″ firing a 250gr might be ~2750 fps. I got 2840 fps in my 26″ Browning A-Bolt from 74 grs of RL-19. I think a loss of around 100 fps is conservative from a 4″ shorter barrel. Then, that 26″ .338 Win became my .340 Wby that also gave high numbers. That barrel, I believe was a tight one that gave a bit higher velocities than average. Ergo: 2750 fps from a 22″ .338 Win Mag should be doable!
Like the .338 Win Mag, the .35 Whelen has benefitted from better powders and bullets in recent years. Some “old-timers” are pushing back on that, refusing to accept that “more” is needed or beneficial, or stating that the “old” numbers satisfied them! But NOT this “old-timer”!
The .35 Whelen predates the .338 Win Mag by nearly four decades, and aficionados have kept it alive – it was that good – until Remington made it legit at SAAMI in 1988. The original specs by Col. Whelen called for a 250gr at 2500 fps from a 24″ barrel employing the “then” powders. Remington claimed 2400 fps from a 24″ tube and their 250gr RN (at 62,000 PS). That load wasn’t even close to max! Nor was their 200gr at a claimed 2675 fps. Those figures still resonate with some “old-timers”. The mere suggestion that 2700 fps from a 250gr in a 24″ barrel appears as hyper exaggeration or, at best, mythology to them! They reject such ideas out of hand – and, in a sense, who could blame them! I could, as I was getting better than 2600 fps from my first .35 When and its 22″ barrel – but who knows at what PSI.
But the facts are: No one, and I mean NO ONE seemed to know what the SAAMI spec was for max PSI – and that included those who were professionals and supposed gurus! A transformation has come about in the last 3 – 4 years after SPEER plublished the No.14 manual and new loads, with new powders, for the venerable .35 Whelen at up to 2700 fps from their 250gr. And while I’ve not seen Sierra’s results, apparently they confirm SPEER’s.
Pre-SPEER and Sierra, I got an easy 2560 fps from a 250gr Hornady SP in a 22″ NEF single-shot. Also, from the same rifle, I got about 3000 fps from the 200gr Hornady SP. Those were, for me at least, “normal loads” long before the appearance of these “new powders”.
My current .35 Whelen has had the spotlight on it for a couple of years in these blogs: A Traditions G3 OUTFITTER single-shot with a brake. It’s appearance is similar to the CVA. Mine is an SS with Cerakote 22″ fluted barrel, plus brake. OL is 29″. It’s a break-action that naked weighs about 6.5 lbs. All-up ready to hunt = 7.75 lbs with a 3 – 9 x 40 VORTEX Diamondback scope, nylon sling and 4 cartridges – one in chamber and 3 in the stock cartridge holder.
BALLISTICS: 2 loads:
- 225gr AB at 2840 fps/4029 ft-lbs/.430 BC/.251 SD.
- Powder: CFE 223/brass: Rem/Primer: WLRM
- COL = 3.45″
- 400yds = 2082 fps/2165 ft-lbs/53 TE average/Recoil =39 without brake/31 with/-17″ at 400 yds.
- 300gr Barnes Original at 2355 fps/3694 ft-lbs/.371 BC/.334 SD.
- Powder: RL-17/brass:Rem/Primer:WLRM
- COL = 3.39″
- 250yds = 1852 fps/2283 ft-lbs/78 TE average/Recoil = 36 ft-lbs without brake/ with brake =29 ft-lbs. -8.2″ at 400 yds with a 160yd zero.
- 2450 fps/3998 ft-lbs easily possible using RL-17. I’ve gone as high as 2620 fps/4572 ft-lbs with a bit of gas escaped around the primer. Otherwise, I could use the case again.
Those two loads shoot into the same group at 100 yds. That’s why I’ll not change the 300gr load. It wasn’t planned, it just happened that way. My .35 Whelen has a long throat that can accomodate a Barnes 225gr X or TSX to 3.5″ COL. Being a single-shot, it’s not cramped by a magazine box. That’s like having a longer case of 2.654″ instead of 2.494″ with .16″ more room for powder.
So, what you’ll get from handloading a generic factory rifle in .35 Whelen will depend NOT on what a particular individual is getting from his/hers, or even what a manual suggests, because there are too many options available from various sources in both information and the rifle’s configuration and specifics. Since there are few new ones in the current market, advocates are recommending rebores of anything from worn-out .30-06’s to rebarrels of anything new that chambers cartridges based on the original parent .30-06 cartridge: from .25-06 to whatever action is long enough to accomodate whatever ultimate length they want their .35 Whelen’s COL to be! The case itself, as I’ve demonstrated above, can accomodate an ultimate COL of the longest monos with enough of the bullet’s shank inside the neck to hold it securely. That does NOT mean it has to be crimped. But if the bullet in question has a BT, like some of the BARNES TTSX, Sierras, etc, that has to be taken into consideration because they must be seated deeper for secure fastening. That means less powder space. But the flat-based bullets, like the 250gr Hornady, Speer and Partition are shorter than some monos with plastic tips and BTs, plus they only need about 1/3 of an inch for secure seating. A Lee crimp die comes in handy as well.
A single-shot, like my Traditions G3 OUTFITTER, has a long freebore and no magazine, so long bullets, as mentioned and pictured above, are not hampered by their cartridge overall length (COL – NOT COAL, as overall is a single word, not two words, despite how some journalists and manuals spell or print it!) That enhances ultimate ballistics significantly!
That’s why IF you want to get the most from a .35 Whelen, not only from best bullets and powders, you should consider a longer action than a generic .30-06 action, or consider a single-shot. Some bolt-actions will handle both medium-length AND longer COLs, like an M70 or M700 (30-06 to .375 H&H- 3.6″) That’s what I’d recommend for a build with ample freebore in throating.
Basically, I’m at original .338 Win Mag ballistics from a 22″ barrel, and more specifically on the heels of a .375 H&H shooting the 300gr Barnes O. I know I could safely go to 2500 fps with that rifle using RL-17 in my setup – whch is NOT standard!
2611 – corrected to MV = 2620 fps
The cartridge case – a bit of gas escaped around the primer. Otherwise no evidence of damage anywhere including extraction!
BUT DON’T TRY THAT ! Yet I know I could load that bullet to 2500 fps safely, but will limit it to 2450 max! Still, as it’s now loaded (2355 fps), it shoots into the same group as the 225 AB at 100 yds, and no more is needed for my purposes.
Yet, as a one rifle for ALL I have hunted, or ever will, nothing more is needed, including for Cape buffalo where legal – as long as the RIGHT bullet is used and placed correctly. It has been called: “The poor man’s .375 H&H”, and in all honesty I think the .375 H&H has little advantage, if any!
Note: I didn’t say “nothing more is WANTED”!
The .35 Whelen is one of the “GREATS” that refuses to go away. . . just like the .35 Remington.
Till the next: Why I (Still) Promote The .458 Winchester Magnum – P1
Shalom
BOB MITCHELL